“Flirting is fun and usually begins in innocence. It’s a hard habit to break, even after marriage. Yet it causes jealousy. Worse, it puts us into situations we never intended to fall into, and it creates misunderstandings that can lead to infidelity” (Jerry Jenkins).
We’d like to address an important issue in this week’s message — the issue of emotional infidelity and flirting with someone other than your spouse. There’s no way we can adequately give it the attention it needs in the space of one marriage message but we’d like to at least scratch the surface and share with you some things to think about that you may have never thought of before.
This subject was sparked by a program we viewed on the Dr Phil program on December 5, 2002 entitled: “You’re Not the Person I Married.” We’d like to share some of the dialogue from that program because we found it to be insightful. In it, Dr Phil was talking with couples who married before really knowing one another—who after the wedding discovered some things about their spouse that they didn’t think they could live with.
The last couple (Joe and Karmen) that he met with was battling with the issue of his flirtations with other women and the emotional affairs he later developed with several of them. To Joe, it was all innocent —just fun, because as he said, “there was no sex involved.” But Karmen didn’t view it that way; she felt hurt and betrayed.
They set up that segment of the program showing a tape of both Joe and Karmen explaining their “sides” on the issue. Karmen said,
“I was in love with Joe, and he swore that he’d be faithful to me when we got married. Joe’s been involved with several women over the years, and he says they’re just emotional affairs, but they bother me just the same. I’m suspicious of everything that Joe says to me, and I’m constantly checking up on him.”
To that Joe responds,
“I never thought I would really be able to give up the attention I want from other women. The flirtations with women I have, they’re just romantic. There’s no sex involved.” And “when I tell the truth” (to Karmen when questioned by her) she”gets hurt, so I sometimes have to lie to save her feelings. To be honest, I never thought we’d be married as long as we are now. I think the kids right now have a lot to do with us still being together.”
They then, show a segment where Karmen’s sitting with her son who was crying telling his mom “it’s all my fault” for the problems they’re having. After the video, Dr Phil asks, “Joe, you just saw the toll this has taken on your son. So how much fun is that flirting now?” to which Joe replied, “It’s not fun at all.”
Karmen said,
“He didn’t know that was going to be on there, but I wanted him to see how bad he’s hurting our son without him even realizing it. My son came to me and said, ‘It’s my fault Dad’s unhappy with life because Dad told me he wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for us and he’s unhappy being here.’ I said, ‘Joel, he was trying to let you know how much he loves you; that even though he’s not happy with himself, he’s here for you, that he loves you.’ But, of course, my son didn’t take it that way.”
Dr Phil addressing Joe, said,
“You say, ‘I got married, knowing I wouldn’t want to give up the affection of other women. I’m having emotional affairs, but nothing physical.’ You know, just color me cynical, but I don’t believe that. I’m not saying you are or you aren’t —I have no evidence. I can’t prove one way or the other—all I know is what you say, and just one guy to another, I don’t believe that for a split second. But—that’s your position. And then you go say this to your children? Do you feel any responsibility to the health and welfare of this family as it relates to your choices?”
Joe replied, “I never knew my choices would really affect the family the way they have. I have, in the past, thought sometimes, it’s better we should just split up, however.” Dr Phil said, “Well, that’s one option, that’s true, to just say, ‘You know, I’ll just go—and y’all make your own way.’ Joe then admitted, “You know, I like what I have. You know, I love Karmen; I love the kids. I don’t want to give that up either.”
When Dr Phil asked Karmen if she felt betrayed by these emotional affairs, she said, “They hurt just the same as if he was out having a physical affair.” Dr. McGraw said, “Well, you are betrayed” and then turned to Joe and asked him if it truly was a betrayal to which Joe affirmed that they were.
Phil then said to him, “Because let me tell you, anytime you turn away from instead of towards your partner to meet emotional needs, physical needs, needs that are appropriate to a committed, intimate relationship, that’s a betrayal. So you have these needs, and you’re turning away from your wife to meet those needs. What do you expect her to do about that?”
Joe replied, “Well, I know I lost her trust. And I know it will be hard to regain it. But all I can do is say I’m sorry. The feeling I was looking for was that new relationship feeling. We’ve been married 14 years, and, you know, I miss that feeling.
Dr Phil then said, “So you thought, ‘I’ll just go get it somewhere else. And I’ll let my children pick up the tab for that immaturity, I’ll let my wife pick up the tab for that immaturity, and I’ll let our family go down in flames, so I can get a rush every 30 days?’”
Joe said, “See, I never really looked at it that way. I didn’t think it affected them a lot of times, I guess really it was, ‘What they don’t know don’t hurt’.”
Dr Phil then replied, “You said, ‘When I got married, I knew I wasn’t going to give up my want for these other women. I didn’t think we would stay married very long.’ So I guess you just thought you’d just bring some kids in the world and then just kind of leave them in your wake as you went to the next conquest. ‘What they don’t know doesn’t hurt them.’ Are you rethinking that as you sit here now?”
Joe said, “Oh, definitely, yes.” Dr Phil then said, “That’s a good thing because this is about wake-up calls. I’m not trying to beat you up. I’m trying to wake you up and get you to realize what you’re doing here.”
Joe acknowledged that he now saw his behavior in a different light and that he had been wrong but he wasn’t able to make a firm promise to stop for fear that if he failed he’d hurt his wife again with another “broken promise.” He did say he “wanted to” stop flirting and seeing other women.
At that point, Dr Phil said,
“Listen, I understand. Isn’t it all fun when you’re falling in love and everything is new and fresh and all that? That’s all fun just like riding a roller-coaster is great fun for some people. But the truth is, as we mature, we realize that love doesn’t get old; it just transforms.
You know, at first, you’re up all night talking and you’re doing all of this stuff and everybody gets all excited and everything. And I always hear them say, ‘Oh, we’re like soul mates. She knows me so well, she can finish my sentences.’ Then two years later, it’s, like, ‘Hey quit interrupting.’ OK? You know we get that evolution, but we label it as negative when really it’s just a change.”
“I don’t stay up all night talking to my wife because I want to go to sleep. But you know what? It may not be exactly the same; it’s better, but different. If you mature enough to allow that to happen, what you find out is—in exchange for some of the exhilaration in the unknown, you have comfort, you have security —you have a soft place to fall. And when you put effort and energy into it, you can create that exhilaration at the right time along the way.
But in the meantime, you mature into nurturing what’s there, learning to label that the same way you label the others. There’s a big difference between falling in love and being in love.”
We appreciated how Dr Phil tried to bring a wake up call to Karmen and Joe and to all married couples who feel flirtations aren’t harmful. If you’d like to read the whole transcript or order a video copy of the show go to www.drphil.com. We hope what we had to share was helpful because as Dr Frank Minirth said, “The problem with infidelity within marriage is greater than most Christians realize.”
What may seem to be innocent flirting by one person with someone other than their spouse can lead to all sorts of problems and by it, many innocent people can get hurt.
Something Jerry Jenkins said in his book, Loving Your Marriage Enough to Protect It (which we highly recommend) may shed some additional light onto this subject. He said,
“Because I enjoy having fun and being funny, and because my mind tends to find humor in words and unusual combinations of ideas, I could easily flirt with anyone I thought was receptive. Much flirting is funny. If someone says something flirtatious with me, my first impulse is to expand on it, play with it, see how quick and funny I can be. But I resist that. It isn’t fair. It’s mental and emotional unfaithfulness. I would be exercising a portion of my brain and soul reserved for my exclusive lover —my spouse.”
Something else Jenkins says that may be helpful on this subject is, “If you want to flirt, flirt with your wife. She may not look, feel, or sound the way she did when you first flirted with her years ago, but she still wants you to flirt with her. Try it. Wink at her across the room. Blow her a kiss no one else sees. Play footsie with her under the table. Give her a squeeze, a pinch, a tickle no one else notices.”
Then he asks the husbands, “Wouldn’t you like to be flirted with by someone who loves you, someone who can tease you about what she might do with you later and then deliver?” Try it—you may like it! We have—and it may just help you to keep the romance alive—just as it has for us in our almost 31 year old marriage.
Because of Christ,
Steve and Cindy Wright
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(US) survivinginfidelity.com
(US) I can identify with everything about the excruciating pain of finding out your husband has had an emotional affair. My husband is a composite of how other posters described their husbands: he has always had a way of joking around women, he is considered a nice guy by most people, our marriage seems to be more stable than most–but none of this had any bearing when he decided to embark on an emotional affair (I didn’t know what it was called at the time, but learned by reading Not Just Friends, and when I explained to him what he had been doing, it didn’t really register at the time).
He became upset when I confronted him the first time, and convinced himself that he wasn’t doing anything wrong, and continued the affair for some months later. When I found evidence that the emotional affair had almost become physical (there probably was some type of sexual activity, but not full-fledged sex) I made the decision to leave him and he saw that I was not making idle threats.
After individual counseling for myself and finally couples counseling that he surprisingly volunteered for, we are almost 98% back to loving and respecting each other the way God intended husbands and wives to be. I will say, however, that after he revealed the things they talked about, the gifts/flowers, the poems and letters that he wrote– it is going to take a looooooong time for me to get over the hurt and heartache that I still feel sometimes.
To the poster who wanted to know where to go for help: just type in the word “infidelity” on any search engine and you will be directed to any number of support groups for women and men who have been affected by various types of infidelity. Some support groups are better than others, but my laptop and my very good friend were tremendous helps in getting me to muster the courage not to end my life in the aftermath of my husband’s infidelity.
Believe me, the devastation that comes with the discovery of emotional infidelity is something that you will never want to experience in your lifetime.
(US) WOW – Reading these stories is soothing. I just found out 3 days ago that my husband is having an emotional affair with a co-worker. I stumbled upon an email chain from them. We have been VERY happily married for 8 years and all of our friends are always shocked about how affectionate we are to one another. I never thought he would ever do such a thing.
The hurt, pain and betrayal I feel is so overwhelming. I always told myself that it would only take one time (meaning a guy would cheat on me once and I’m out of there). I don’t think I could ever trust him again if I stay with him. We have a small child and she will be completely devastated if we split.
Of course he is saying it’s completely nothing and it was just a few words. Well inviting someone to your house for lunch next week while your husband is out of town for “lunch” and also asking if she can help him with some things in his office with the door closed, doesn’t seem too innocent to me! Maybe it’s just me?!
He has been crying all weekend long and says he will make me the happiest girl in the world. I just need to believe in him. I know he knows that he messed up big time. But he is a flirt and I don’t think that is something that you can change in someone. He never flirts with others in front of me though. What the heck do I do? My heart is broken in pieces!
(US) WOW. I too am enduring the pain of my husband of 21 years having an emotional affair with a female “friend”. He met this woman in a bar about a year ago. She was the bartender at the bar my husband would stop at occasionally (I too used to be a bartender when we met). My husband is a deacon in our church and when she found out that she started to ask him all kinds of questions about religion.
This was back in October of 2008, then it escalated and she would text him on his phone 10 to 15 times per day and also calling 2-3 times a day and they would be talking 30 min up to an hour at a time. At this point in time I knew nothing about it. He had casually mentioned this woman’s name. The only time she would call is when I was not home or when my husband was at work (my husband works 11pm – 7am). This went on for about 2 months. When I was looking at the phone bill and saw the # of calls and text messages then I finally confronted my husband.
We started counseling in Jan of 2009 (we still are in counselling). After we started counselling, he was asked by the counselor to cut off all communication with her to see what his true feelings were. He did that, and then after a week they started to talk again. The communication level went right back to where it was, so I called this woman and confronted her. She said she would feel the exact same way I did and that she would not be contacting him any more. That lasted for 2 weeks. Then she started calling again, so I called her again and confronted her again. She said she would quit calling which I thought she did.
Fast forward, to Jun 09, my husband tells me that someone he works with is switching facilities and that is who is calling on a restricted telephone number. Fast forward to Aug 09, there is a call to that woman and immediately following a call comes in on the restricted telephone number. I put two and two together and guess what? He has deceived me and lied to me for the last 3 months that it has been her calling him again, and it has been almost every day. Since I found this out there has been no contact.
I am really heart broken that I have been deceived and lied to. He says that it would not have had to happen if I would have let him talk to her. I really don’t know what we are going to do at this point in time. We are continuing to see a conselor but I don’t know what is going to happen. He says he loves me but there is so much hurt and the trust has been broken.
(US) I recently found out my husband was having an emotional affair for the past six months with someone he was carpooling with.
He, like many, denied anything was happening even after I found that they were texting up to 700 times per month and spending 3 to 4 hours on the cell phone each day; including my birthday and weekends, as well as his sending emails from a “secret” email account I just happened to stumble on.
It has taken almost two months for him to admit what he did was wrong and to understand where my hurt and loss of trust is coming from. It has not been an easy journey thus far, and although I decided one day to no longer let this woman intrude in my marriage, there is still paranoia and fear – he has the use of a work Blackberry which he could now be using to send her text messages and for calling her. He claims he has had no contact with her since he told her it was over, but that’s where the paranoia sets in because I don’t trust or believe him completely.
The strange thing is that his infidelity has brought us closer and working through it has given us a new glimpse into what we were doing wrong and why he needed, or thought he needed, to look outside of our marriage for emotional intimacy.
Marriage counseling has made the biggest difference as now we know how to communicate lovingly with each other and even when we hit a roadblock, which is less frequent than I can ever remember, we are able to talk it through with dignity, respect and love; whereas before his first impulse was to yell and scream when I would ask questions, he will now, for the most part, hear what I have to say or ask and reply accordingly.
I don’t know if I will ever be able to trust him 100%. It’s still pretty raw, but I pray that with the help of our therapist, our willingness to make our marriage stronger, and strength from God, we will be happier and more closely emotionally bonded in our marriage.
(USA) I ache for everyone of you that has posted to date. I too have unwilling joined this group who’ve experienced emotional infidelity from their spouse. My pain has been hidden because no one else but my husband and his “friend” knows that I know. It’s been tough to be around others and pretend that all is well – I know you all understand what I mean.
My saga has gone on for much of this year. My husband and I own a business and he hired a new sales gal at the first of the year. From the beginning he spent a lot of time with her, taking her to lunch, driving her everywhere — supposedly this was all “training”. However after 3 to 4 months it became apparent that her training period had gone on longer than normal. They went on a business trip in April (I was not happy about this and told my husband so but he said there was nothing to worry about) and after returning, my husband told me about her behavior there – drinking heavily, dancing with 5 to 6 men at a time, talking graphically about sex. One of our married clients was there and he tried getting her so drunk that she’d have sex with him (!!)
She is very inappropriate in her conversations with everyone – including clients, male co-workers, etc. She will discuss her sexual preferences in great detail and finds no harm in it. She is very open about “being like a guy” in that she can sleep around with anyone and not have it bother her that she never sees the guy again.
It was after this trip that my husband began to work out; cut his hair and dyed his white whiskers weekly; he began dressing up all the time and continued to spend long days at the office. I expressed my concern on several occasions but he just said that there was nothing going on.
In May, he called me late on a Friday and said that he had a meeting with a new client the next morning. (We NEVER meet with clients on Saturdays). I questioned him but he just said that that was the only day he could meet with both of the contacts that he needed to. I asked if he was taking her, but he said no, it was just he that was going. The meeting was to be at 9:30 and was only about 1/2 hour from our house.
The next morning he left 2 1/2 hours before the meeting. I have the ability to check gps tracking on all our employee’s phones so I looked hers up. Guess what? She was at a local meeting place (even though she lives about 1 hour from there) that my husband uses. I was irritated but went on with my morning. Several hours later I checked to see if they were done, but turns out that they had travelled somewhere else – 2 hours away from where he was supposed to be. I confronted him about it and he denied that he had even seen her that day. It was just “coincidence”.
2 weeks later a company credit card bill arrived and there was a gas fill-up that day in the area he swore he was not in. When confronted he said that she had shown up for the meeting and called him — when he said that she didn’t need to have come, she “pitched a fit” about wasting her gas so he drove to where she was locally and gave her the gas card. He insisted it was she that drove to this other location alone and filled up her own car.
Flash forward 2 more weeks – Knowing that he had now lied about his first story, I check the company cell phone bill – no calls between them that day. HOWEVER, he did call a phone number — again in the area where her gps tracked her to. At this point it had been a month, and when I called the number the guy said did not recall meeting my husband or her but I could tell that he was nervous talking to me and couldn’t get off the phone fast enough.
When trying to find out who this guy was and why my husband would have taken her to that area, I checked his emails (something I’d never done before). There was no record of this guy but I did find numerous emails between them, some having gone on for hours on Easter and other days that we were all at home. The emails were flirtatious and sexually suggestive – my husband was using some bet that they’d made to come up with ways she would have to “pay” if she lost the bet – these ways all involved spending time going somewhere on short day trips or shopping for new outfits, etc. I was sick at heart and furious.
I thought all of this had been driven by her (due to her general behavior with all men) so I drove to our office and took her out to lunch. I let her know that I knew what was going on, that the personal contact was going to stop, etc. She denied having any interest in my husband.
When she would not talk to him that afternoon at work and said “she had a lot to think about that weekend”, my husband was livid and we got into a huge fight that night. He said that he was angry that I hadn’t trusted him — that I’d been wrong to come down there and cause problems. He said that he would probably be moving out of the house. So I left for the weekend to give him time to figure stuff out. When I returned home, I found that he’d sent me an email and told me that he’d been wanting to leave me for 8 months – that he wanted to see if there was “more” out there. He denied that anything had happened with her and there was nothing wrong because they hadn’t had sex. He wasn’t sure if he was going to stay or not. He was considering moving into an extended stay hotel for a couple of weeks.
I don’t really believe his story that he’d been wanting to leave me for that long – I think that he’d begun thinking of this once he took an interest in her. I believe that they originally bonded over shared interests (music, dancing, sense of humor) and he later developed an emotional connection with her over our problems in running a business, etc. Once all this was established, I think that because he does not like to be alone, he was trying to develop HER interest in HIM and had he been successful, he would then have left me for her. My taking her out to lunch “ruined” his plans so to speak.
Since this huge fight he has chosen to stay, however there is a significant distance between us. He has only recently started limiting his time spent with her at the office, but there have been several times that I’ve heard him answer his cell phone and since he actually talks differently with her than anyone else, I immediately know it’s her. He had blocked me out of all his computers and even the gps tracking system for a number of months. I’m back able to track her again but still have no access to his computers. Every time I see him on there for an extended period, I still wonder if he’s sending personal notes back and forth.
In late August, he told me that he wasn’t sure if he could commit to our marriage or not — he wasn’t ready to say that yet. When our anniversary came in mid September I was just basically going to ignore it. What’s the point in celebrating something that really means little? Several days before it he started making a huge deal about it – “reminding” me several times that it was coming. He went out and spent over $700 dollars on some items, including a bottle of Cristal. (He NEVER does this). I thought he’d gone a bit crazy at that point.
I later found out that he’d sent her an email detailing what he bought and how much he spent. There were items listed that he didn’t even get me. He said he wanted her “opinion” to see if these were good enough for all the years that I had put up with him. I have no idea what her response was but needless to say, this ripped another hole in my heart knowing that he was just our anniversary and his gifts as a way to impress her (she’s what most would refer to as a “gold digger”).
I have prayed and prayed for him and for our marriage. I’ve prayed for strength and the ability to forgive him, but there are some days that I just want to walk. I believe in the sanctity of marriage and believe that marriage is until “death do us part”. This has been the most difficult thing that I’ve ever been through (even more painful than losing our second daughter years ago) — I don’t know that I’ll ever be able to forgive him or forget. The hardest part is knowing that he thinks he did nothing wrong (again, there was no sex involved so he wasn’t “unfaithful” in his mind) so what is my assurance that he won’t do this again – either with her or another woman down the road?
I pray for all of you and hope that we can all find peace and healing in what ever way it eventually comes.