So, you haven’t had much sex with your spouse lately, huh? Well, one in five couples are living in “sexless” marriages, sex experts say, meaning having sex fewer than 10 times a year. And one-third of married couples struggle with the problem of mismatched sexual desire.It’s the main reason couples seek counseling. And here in Silicon Valley, [California] where couples are working long hours to pay high mortgages or are desperately searching for jobs during a recession, fatigue and stress only make matters worse.
“I’ve been married 10 years. There were times when once in three months was a good thing,” said a 33-year-old Santa Clara County employee who didn’t want her name used. “It’s feeding the kids, getting them to bed, all after putting in a full day and commuting. I have a ‘no-sex-after-8 o’clock’ rule. When I crawl into bed, I want to go to sleep.”
Low sex drive is such a problem, said Al Cooper of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre, that it’s considered the “common cold of sexual issues of the new millennium.”
Whether sex drives are lower in general now than in years past is uncertain. But one thing is sure, Cooper said: “Women are complaining more.” When it comes to seeking counseling, it’s the women who are dragging the men into sex therapy offices. And in these instances, contrary to popular belief, it’s the husbands with low desire. “In our society, it’s more culturally acceptable for the woman to have no sex drive,” Cooper said. “When the man has no sex drive, it’s more upsetting to both of them.”
Sexless marriages seem to be the constant talk these days, from Oprah and Dr. Phil (who calls it an “undeniable epidemic”) to numerous books climbing the bestseller charts, including “The Sex-Starved Marriage” by Michele Weiner Davis. New York Magazine wrote a recent story about “Generation Sexless” — young New Yorkers so busy with their careers and demanding toddlers they have little time or desire for sex.
So, how much sex is “normal?” Sex experts are reluctant to quantify how much sex is enough sex (it could make some couples feel wholly inadequate, and some couples get along just fine without much sex). But while fewer than 10 times a year is considered sexless, having sex once or twice a week is considered average.
“Unlike vitamins, there are no daily minimum requirements,” said Weiner Davis, who wrote The Sex-Starved Marriage. “If both spouses are satisfied with having a sex-lite marriage, that’s great. However, it’s much more often the case that couples are polarized, that one person is unhappy with the quality and quantity of their sex life and the other is saying, ‘What’s the big deal? Get a life.’”
Only 40% of married couples say they’re very satisfied with their sex lives, Weiner Davis said. While medical problems and some medications can cause loss of desire — including some antidepressants and some birth control pills — most problems revolve around differing and unfulfilled expectations.
Heather and Jarad, who have been married for 5 years and have a 6-month-old daughter, say it’s hard to squeeze in time for sex, or even work up the desire, in their hectic lives. The couple, who commute to San Jose from Hollister each day, say they’re lucky to have sex twice, maybe three times, a month. “It’s the game of trying to slip it in when the baby’s sleeping,” Jarad said. “It’s a fight for time.” “There are times when I may want to and he may not,” Heather added. “It’s important for me to have that time to remember I’m not just a mother, I’m his wife.”
Dramatic changes in men’s and women’s roles over the past decades also have altered expectations of marriage — and corresponding feelings about sex.
“I look back to my parents’ generation; they had it a little easier. Their roles were carved out,” Weiner Davis said. “Now in relationships, although we have a lot more freedom, it’s hard, because everything is up for grabs: Who takes the garbage out? Who gets up with the baby? In a sense we have to invent our marriages, and with that freedom comes conflict.”
In addition to stress and exhaustion, experts say, anger and resentment can build to the point where sex stops. Other factors in sexless marriages include subverting one’s sex drive to, say, pornographic Internet sites or affairs with other people. “I saw a doctor last week who wasn’t having sex with his wife but was looking at pictures of big-breasted women on the Internet,” Cooper said. “We see this a lot in the valley.”
In general, however, a couple’s problems are often less about sex, per se, than getting to the sex, Cooper said. No couple’s willingness for sex at any given time lines up perfectly, he said. The key is how well a couple negotiates the times when one initiates and the other refuses.
“If it becomes a major battle every time, the person with the lower sex drive feels constantly barraged and harassed about sex. The one with the high sex drive feels constantly deprived, and the fights get more intense each time,” Cooper said. “We see there that the sex just drops away.” And when the sex stops, often the casual affection stops: the hand-holding, the laughing at each other’s jokes, the sitting next to each other on the couch. When relationships become that icy, they risk infidelity and, ultimately, divorce.
About half the population needs to make a real effort to feel desire, Weiner Davis said. A reluctant spouse must make a “decision for desire,” she said. “If you wait for the feeling to sort of wash over you, when the dogs are out of the house, the phones are not ringing, the kids are in bed, you’re never going to have sex.”
Couples need to put as much energy into their sex lives as their job and children, she said. Set the mood early in the day with simple flirtations around the house, a patting on the rear end, complimenting the spouse’s appearance. And of course, avoid bickering before bedtime. Couples with more deep-seated problems should seek counseling.
“I wish I had a dollar for everyone who said ‘I wasn’t in the mood when I started, but I really got into it,’” she said. “One of the best ways to make it happen is to be receptive to your spouse’s advances.”
It’s advice that the 33-year-old woman with the “no-sex-after-8″ rule didn’t take. She and her husband are separating. “The world is just very busy,” she said. “You need to have a two-income household. You pay a price for it.”
The above article came from The Mercury News— Feb. 14, 2003, and was titled, Is it the New Epidemic? written by Julia Prodis Sulek Mercury News. It’s not written from a Christ-follower’s view point but we think it’s very sound advice.
We, at Marriage Missions, don’t feel that God would have us “pay the price” of sacrificing our marriages because we’re too “busy” to have sex. Scripturally we feel that God wants us to work with each other, as long as it doesn’t go against scriptural grounds, to accommodate each other’s sexual needs.
The scriptural basis we see for this can be found in the Bible in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 where it says,
“The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone, but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
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39 comments so far ↓
1 Jeni // Oct 9, 2007 at 2:00 am
Your information was helpful. My husband has a habit of not believing that issues of sex drive matter much, and that they are not something that brings much disharmony to our marriage. I wonder if he sometimes believes that our marriage is as wonderful as anyone could hope for. I know that there is no way to fully express to him how difficult the deprivation of affection is for me, since he is not experiencing it, and has no desire to feel the kind of affection I am looking for. When I want a hug, I can literally feel him pulling out of it. When I make a comment that suggests sex, he ignores me, and an awkward silence fills the room, and I feel horribly stupid. The issues has been talked about to no avail, and he has made it absolutely clear for the last 3 years that there is nothing he can or will do about it. It is my “problem”.
This in view, I must add that I think I have a high sex drive. I would love to have sex a couple times a week. We do not have a sexless marriage, but we have sex an average once every 11 days, ( 3 times a month). I am 24, he is 29, we are both healthy. I have attempted to remove stressors from our home. The house is clean, our two toddlers do not bother him while he is doing homework and I handle the majority of the discipline in the home. I make the dinners, allow him to talk freely about work with out interruption, and I do not put unnecessary strain on our finances, which are in stellar order. I complement his progress in school, work and I do not nag him. He gets as much attention, massages, and time away for guy time as he wants. I have made several deals about sex; I would do this or that, and he might be more willing to have sex or show more affection. Nothing has stuck for more than a couple days. I do not pester him for sex. I had decided at the beginning of this year to stop asking for sex, and to wait until he is ready.
The longest that I lasted was 17 days. He has only approached me for sex in the last year 3 times. My emotions on the subject have ranged from feeling like my husband is completely disappointed in his choice of wife, to being sexually unattractive, to feeling like he secretly hates me, to feeling like I am a freak of nature that is destroying my husband’s peace. I feel like this about 90% of the time. He has no idea, and he doesn’t want to hear it. We have only been married for 4 years. I am shocked at how three short years have made a difference in our sex life. The trend is that we will be have about a third as much sex by this time next year as we are now, since that is how it has worked for the other years we have been married. I am so worried that we will have a sexless marriage, and that I am doomed to feeling ugly and frustrated all the time, instead of 90% of the time, because that 10% does manage to keep me afloat. I have prayed a lot, but I don’t get an answer or any peace. Nothing changes. How do I get my husband to see my side of things without destroying his ego or our peace at home, or being completely shut down and mocked.
2 Cindy Wright // Oct 9, 2007 at 9:55 am
I’m so sorry Jeni that you’re going through this in your marriage. I’m sure this is really difficult and plays on your mind and emotions quite a bit! It appears like your husband isn’t taking seriously the action to “deny self” that the Bible talks about. It sounds like you’re doing your best to do that; but your husband also needs to deny his natural tendency in this to be a better partner in this area of your marriage. Many times a person begins to make love to be in partnership with their spouse even though they don’t “feel like it” but eventually find themselves enjoying it more than they ever thought possible. Your husband needs to recognize the need to do what he can to make this happen. Some people have a lower libido than others, but just because we don’t “feel” like it, it doesn’t mean that we can’t start the process and see what happens. Even if we’re not into it as much as we wish we could be, there’s something to be said for making it our goal to bring pleasure to our partner. That’s a big part of what happens in a good marriage.
Please don’t lose hope. I’ve seen it happen repeatedly that situations may be going in a bad direction for a long time with no sign that things will ever improve, but then something happens and things change for the better when the non-participating spouse finally “wakes up” for some reason. It really is true that “whoever wants sex the least has the most power in bed.” I pray your husband wakes up and becomes a participant in loving you in this wonderful God-sanctioned part of marriage — both for your benefit as well as his.
Also, I want to warn you to guard your heart. You sound very frustrated right now, and understandably so. But these are times when we can be vulnerable to fall into temptation even though we never thought it could ever happen to us. So be aware of your vulnerability and put up hedges to guard your heart and mind and actions so you don’t end up compromising your values. No matter what your husband does or doesn’t do, you still don’t want to do something you know isn’t right, and something you’ll eventually live to regret. If I could only show you the many letters we get that tell us of this sad scenario, you’d be all the more cautious. Beyond what I’ve just written, I’m hoping someone will read this that might have some good suggestions for you — ones that are truly healthy. I pray the Lord strengthens you and gives you help and hope.
3 Kristi // Dec 7, 2007 at 12:42 pm
(USA) I have been married for 4 1/2 years now. My husband and I lived together before we were married and at that point I noticed that our sex life started to slow down. We were never really a couple that "did it" all the time, but at least a couple times a week. Our first year of our marriage we went 9 months without having sex. I was so confused and thought something was wrong with me, therefore I was reluctant to bring up the issue. Over the past 4 1/2 years we engage in sex about once every four/five months. It is not a love making experience, rather a "hurry up and get it done" feeling from my husband. I have continued to put this issue out of my head, but I have finally reached a point of no return. I’ve suggested counciling and he went once. When I scheduled another session he got frustrated because work made it too difficult to go. I told him to give me other times that would work and he never did. I dropped it. I now have the attitude in which I am sick of being the one to try and save this marriage.
Not only are we not having sex, but he is not intimate at all. He will not touch me in a sexual way and hasn’t in a long time (couple years).
I know this sounds abnormal, but I really feel like I am living with a roommate. All of our friends think we are the perfect couple. My husband is a great guy - smart, funny, successful…but he is either gay, not in love with me, or messed up in some other way.
Anyways, it is good to hear other people’s stories. I don’t feel so alone.
4 Kristen // Dec 7, 2007 at 9:48 pm
(USA) I thank God for you all sharing your testimonies. I thought I was in this season of my marriage by myself. Cindy has truly helped me to get a better grasp of what I am facing. I understand that my husband may have a low sex drive and I have a high sex drive. I have only been married for 2 years and I can honestly count on my hands how many times we had sex.
I prayed to God and asked him why is it like this. We waited to have sex after marriage and this is what I get for waiting? I was angry with God and the situation I was in. We went to counseling and found out that he doesn’t really love himself, so he can’t love me right now. And on top of everything else, I walk on egg shells not to make a mistake because he withholds sex as a punishment towards me. This is a hard place to be when you desire to have intimacy with your husband. I ask him for sex and he rejects me, making up excuses of tiredness or just not right now comments. However, when we talk about the lack of sex, he tells me to ask and he will give it to me but I don’t feel like I should have to ask for it because I will just hit the wall of rejection again. A woman sometimes wants to feel wanted and I feel like another person he has to please in his life.
My self-esteem and confidence initially went out of the window and I just regained my confidence in God. I know that my husband is trying but all I can do is hope for the best in this area of our marriage. Please pray for us that we experience true intimacy with God and each other. God bless your marriage!
5 LT // Dec 7, 2007 at 9:59 pm
(USA) Hi Kristi, I felt compelled to write in response to your comments. The situation you describe is certainly one of concern and does not represent a healthy marriage life.
I agree with you in that, yes, it sounds more like a roommate situation than a marriage. And that, yes, your suspicions on what the issue behind this problem might be are probably one of those three things you mentioned.
I pray that it is not sexual molestation in your husband’s past or an extramarital affair (ie he’s getting sex somewhere else?) Is it possible he’s into porn? That is sometimes the culprit behind a married man’s lack of desire for his wife.
At any rate - I think that you should re-address the issue of counseling with your husband. I think that it is a good idea.
It seems that he is avoiding the issue (using his work schedule to not go to counseling and then not giving alternate times that work for him). This avoidance is a confirmation, in my opinion, of it being a touchy subject that is, possibly, too hard for him to face. Why? I don’t know but it indicates something is wrong.
Do you ever ask your husband directly what might be the reason for the lack of desire? Certainly it is important to address the subject from a standpoint of concern for him, as opposed to sounding like an accusation of wrongdoing or an argument.
There are SO many topics on this website, including how to start a hard conversation as well as marital problems, sex in marriage and others. Hopefully you can find other resources on this site to help you.
In the meantime, I think it would behoove you to address the issue and not "give up" as you have in the past.
In I Corinthians 7:5 it talks about spouses not withholding sex from each other. To do so is actually against scripture (I’m not sure if you are aware of this).
I assume you are a Christian. If this is the case, I would pray about this matter and guidance on how to handle it but it also might help to talk to someone (a minister or elder woman in your congregation) you trust and pray with them over it, as well. Hopefully that will also give you some guidance.
The Bible does say that we can share with other Christians if they have sinned against us. If you boil it down, your husband is caught up in a sin because he is withholding sex from him wife and this is against what the bible teaches. It also is not part of his scriptural role to love His wife.
Loving includes concern for others and being concerned about what is important to them. This is something that is important to you so he should be showing loving concern for your feelings.
Matthew 18:5 talks about if someone is trespassing against you, you should tell them. It also talks about what to do, in the church, if they won’t hear you on a matter.
I will keep you in my prayers. I hope this helps. These were the verses that came to my mind as I read your comments.
God bless you, LT
6 Jerry // Dec 15, 2007 at 8:11 pm
(USA) Jeni, I could have written your response from my own experience. I’ve been married for just over nine years and we have sex on average of about 1 or 2 times per three months. Recently, I asked her to marry me again because I truly love her. Yet, when she withholds sex she brings this up. "Why do you want to marry me again (renew our vows) if you don’t like how I am." I’ve even resorted to creating "special" dates or purchases to have sex with her. This is wrong, but I’ve found myself doing whatever it takes to have a sexual relationship with my wife. I’ve suspected she is having an affair, we’ve went to Christian counseling for months at a time (3 separate times) and things only perk up for a week or so to about once or twice a week. I’ve read numerous websites and read all the scriptures. Tonight I asked her to speak with our Pastor about the situation and she refused. She knows what the Bible says and has basically ignored it. We are both attractive, though could stand lose a few pounds. I have the opportunity to go outside the marriage and have fought this for so many years. I pray that I do not allow this situation to get out hand to commit adultery. She says adultery is grounds for divorce, but ignores other scripture. I am very tired of this, trying everything I know to change the situation and going to bed frustrated and feeling alone each night. We still kiss and say I love you daily, but I need and expect more.
7 LT // Dec 16, 2007 at 3:41 pm
(USA) Hi Jerry, The Bible says that husbands and wives are not to withhold sex from each other (I Corinthians 7:3-6). And the scriptures are clear that the reason for this is so that one (or both) don’t end up having affairs. Even the secular community knows that when men, especially, are deprived of sex for too long, consistently, they tend to look elsewhere. If your wife is withholding sex from you she’s not only violating scripture (the one above) she’s also putting a stumbling block in front of you because your mind will then wander and think about sex elsewhere (which is a sin) and therefore she’s causing you to sin as well.
Scripture says that when a brother (in Christ, which would also include a spouse) is caught up in a sin, you can tell them about it in private. Obviously you’ve already done this and your wife didn’t listen and won’t speak to the pastor.
The Bible is clear on the next steps to take when a brother won’t hear you when you have a fault with them. See Matthew 18:15-17. If she won’t listen to you, and won’t see the pastor, then bring the pastor to you and talk at your house, with her.
However, I caution you in this way - always examine yourself first. Once you involve others, you can expect the person being confronted to not only be embarrassed and/or bitter (for a while) but they might also bring out skeletons you are hiding in your own closet so make sure you’ve prayed and examined yourself first, before making the step to confront someone with other witnesses present.
The Bible says all truth will be brought to light. This includes sins that someone is committing and trying to hide. I will keep you in my prayers. God bless.
8 Lee // Feb 15, 2008 at 10:32 am
(USA) I’m a little fed up with all the commentary on similar websites, shows and threads that seem to indicate this is all about disinterested husbands leaving poor little wife to her own problems. Nothing could be further from the truth in our situation. My spouse has herself said with a laugh "there’s not a sensous bone in my body." I’ll make advances, provide opportunity, give gifts talk directly about desires or needs and the result is…….
I enjoy seeing here in nice lingerie, pretty dresses, and sexy clothing, but it rarely happens. She owns all these, but they are stuffed away in the back of the closet gathering dust. She prefers flumping around in sweats or blue jeans and sweat shirts. It’s not how it was when we met, or for the first few years of marriage.
Just recently we were looking throuhg a catalog of books, since we both enjoy reading. There was a book with a collection of art plates in it, paintings of beautiful women. The artists featured had their works displayed in multiple galleries and museums. Her observation, "I don’t think those kind of pictures are appropriate. Nobody has to show themselves off like that." These are paintings. I responded that men find them beautiful and appealing. It turned into a big arguement that somehow was supposedly about her, and her not being "the woman you want me to be." All I did was say I thought the paintings were beautiful, and wouldn’t mind if she was a little more inclined to seeing the beauty in that sort of thing too.
These were gallery type paintings, we’re not talking pornography here.
Our tremendous lack of sensuality and intimacy in marriage isn’t because I’m inattentive or uninterested. Frankly it’s because I’m very frustrated and BORED with her attitude and approach to the issue. In all these discussions I’d sure like to see the so-called professionals helping women talk a little more responsibility than I’m reading or hearing about.
9 Lia // Feb 21, 2008 at 11:01 am
(USA) I am having the same feeling, I feel that I am living like a roommate or my marriage is a business. I met my husband overseas and I came to US to know him better, I stayed in his house and during this time we had sex a couple times, because when we talked about it, he said we were not supposed to have sex before marriage anyway. I thought it was wonderful hear this from him, and I agreed.
We got married in 05/2001 and we had sex about twice a month, then he lost his job in 10/2001, because of 9/11. We had a difficult time and we did not have sex at all during the eight months he was unemployed. I thought it was because of the unemployment stress.Then he found a job, we had sex once a I got pregnant. I also found a very good job. He was a remote employee and his job required a lot travel after while. But he was home every weekend, and during the nine months we did not have sex at all, since he thought it was weird.
I had a boy in 2003 and I nursed him for 2 years, during this time if we had sex about 3 or 4 times, then he got tired of the travel and found a job with less travel. he was also a remote employee. In January of 2006 he had to travel to Miami for his job. On the weekend he came home we had sex once and I got pregnant. He made a joke that he saw a lot beautiful Cuban girls and came home to have sex with me. I knew I could expect 9 more months without sex. Then guess what, since January 2006 he did not have more sex with me. I tied my tubes and I nursed my daughter until 12/07. Then I stopped to think about it and I realized that since we do not have sex for more then 2 years, something could be wrong in our marriage. In the past while talking to him I made some jokes about the situation and he would laugh, he thought that it was funny.
I asked him about it this month and he did not say in the beginning, but at the end I understood that it is because the weight I gained. I am not ugly, I was size 08 and I am size 16 now, I am going to a weight management doctor and I lost 11 lbs already in less then one month, but I am doing this for me and not for my husband. I do not think the problem is my weight, because before I got the weight we did not a normal sex life.
I feel hurt, because I do everything. I work, I take care of the house, the kids and everything needs to repair in the house. We just built 3400 sq ft house and I managed the construction, hired contractors, and took the most of the stress.
I think that I have a lot and to complete my life, last week the hospital put his grandmother in a nursing home and he is taking his 55 years old aunt with down syndrome to live with us, because he promised his grandfather to take her. He wants that I take care of her, besides he knows that I did want this, but it looks like my opinion is not important. We do not kiss, but say I love you sometimes or every time that I drop him at the airport.
10 Lia // Feb 21, 2008 at 1:18 pm
(USA) In my message above , I meant I do not want to have my husband’s aunt living with us, since I have a lot going on, and I would like to work in our marital problem first.
11 Abraham // Feb 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
(CANADA) First, in comment to Lee, I share your frustration. this is almost a perfect reflection of my marriage. If I even ask my wife to wear a dress, I get in trouble. Woe to me if I express that I think she is "sexy".
However, I’d caution you against taking personal, the focus on male refusal. This is a pretty newly revealed phenomenon and the female refusees have been out in the cold for a long time.
Oh, and don’t dare bring up 1 Cor 7 to your refusing spouse. Overall, that kind of thing is not good practice, but especially in this kind of circumstance.
12 My_Story // Feb 27, 2008 at 8:15 pm
(USA) Oh, you guys! My heart hurts reading your stories — how difficult it must be for all of you. Can I tell you something? Continue to serve God. He will bless your obedience and faithfulness. 20 years ago, I could not imagine my marriage would endure, survive and thrive, and now, nearly 23 years after I got married, I cannot imagine my life without my husband. We had many hitches and stops and starts in our sex life together — sometimes we still do. But we have amazing, mind-blowing love-making that comes with the commitment and "practice" of this long time together, and I would not trade it for anything. Get counseling, read books, cry out to God, do whatever it takes to preserve the union and keep the promises you made. If you make it, you won’t be sorry.
13 Abraham // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:06 am
(CANADA) Also, in my estimation, highlighting this as a problem for women also removes some of the stigma for the high sex drive male. We aren’t so out to lunch if women are feeling this way too.
14 PT // Jun 5, 2008 at 12:31 pm
(CANADA) I have the same situation but I guess mine is worse because I’ve been with my boyfriend for 4 month and before him I had lots of passionate relationships. For some reason I like to stay with him but sex is the problem. The first 2-3 weeks, we had sex almost every night and the sex was perfect. It faded out to 2 time per week. And last month we barely had one, cuz i told him about my sexual frustration and the lack of self-esteem so I wore a sexy out fit and went out after i came back he came and said sorry for that he was busy and bluh bluh so he started to have sex but it last for 2 minutes maximum . he never answers my questions about this and not like me to touch him or the sex is not that good anymore it used to last for hours now he finishes it off early although he can last more and he does not do everything he used to do before like oral sex and other stuff , sex is mechanical routine and no connection in it , so i was wondering if its going to get better or its just the fundamental problem between us , we are together 24/7 , he dont let me go stay at my house so sincewe started i am living at his place , i tried to break up but i could not continue with the procedure cuz he always have some excuse , i dont thing once per month is enough for us and i dont like to be always the initiator , i am 19 and he is 26. Thanks
15 Cindy Wright // Jun 5, 2008 at 12:58 pm
(USA) Hi PT, Bless your heart! I’m not sure if you realize that this is a Christian web site. We deal with marriage and pre-marriage issues. I’m not trying to throw stones at your situation, but I want to explain why you may not find too much help on this particular web site.
One of the beliefs we hold to strongly is that having sex before marriage is like opening a gift prematurely. It’s not that having sex isn’t a great experience to have, but it’s designed by God to be experienced in the context of being committed to each other through marriage. (You can read through the “Sex Before Marriage” section that we have on this web site to see better what I’m explaining.)
And it’s not that those who wait, won’t have problems later with their sexual lives together. But in the context of marriage, it is blessed by God and is something that the couple works through together. They made a vow to “love, honor, and cherish” each other for the rest of their lives, so their resolve to work through their issues has a stronger motivation because leaving each other over an issue such as this, isn’t supposed to be an option that they are to explore. Unfortunately, some do, but it isn’t something that the Lord wants, because sex — while it is fun and terrific in the context of marriage — it is also a sacred experience where the husband and wife are bonded together all the closer in how they express themselves. It’s fun AND it’s sanctified — which is the BEST!
I hope you understand why we can’t really answer your question. I pray the best for you and pray that someday you experience sex within marriage and that both of you know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and Lord, and that your sexual times together are the most wonderful, fulfilling experiences you could have ever imagined! (To explore more about having a personal relationship, you can go into the blue box in the upper right corner of the web site and click onto the arrow next to “Find it Now” and then follow the prompts.) Blessings! Cindy
16 Lora // Jun 19, 2008 at 7:32 pm
(USA) Thank you for the Christian insight as to what is going on with me and my marriage. It is nice to have a area like this to go to, because it is such a taboo topic in Christian circles. Although there is comfort in knowing I am not alone, and my husband as a Christian should be willing to fulfill me in this area, I still feel like as a Christian, God should be enough. I should not react to the rejection by altering my daily behavior, but I do.
I stop putting my children’s and my husband’s need before my own and I start down a mental path of self pity until he is willing to sleep with me again. We acknowledged this issue in our marriage almost a year ago. My husband and I were in agreement that if he did not make the time to sleep with me at least twice a week I would start to react with negative emotions to him first and then our children. Not that I was being bad, I just wouldn’t do the nice things like breakfast and bed and fixing him snacks in the evening, and if the sex continued to be withheld I would steadily deteriorate till I would emotionally shut off to everyone. I have had personal counseling that has gotten me over the emotional break downs, and I can even often pull myself out of the self pity by focusing on eternity with God and our ultimate purpose in life, but there is still an issue.
My husband for the last 6 months or more has been forcing himself to sleep with me for my emotional good, and though I enjoyed it for a time it just seems wrong now. I am attractive and young and I don’t want him sleeping with me because he has to. I have cut back the sex, not because I don’t want it, but I don’t want it on those terms. I only want to sleep with him if he really wants me, and I wish there was some way to stop being the overly sexually needy partner. I want to be on level playing field when I am intimate with my husband. I don’t know if this is really even worth my emotional time to vent this, I have recently read in Isaiah 54:5 "For your Maker is your husband the Lord Almighty is his name, the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer he is called the God of all the earth." and also verse 6 " The Lord will call you back as if you were a wife who married young only to be rejected."
I married young and from the start I was not what my husband wanted in a wife. He is clearly in love with his hobby and it is his love. You can not ask some one to not love what they love because only God can change their heart, and even if they can produce the outward actions of love to you over the hobby they will still despise you in their heart, and in the end they will make life more difficult for you because you stand between them and their love. So in the end does this not leave me like Israel, they chose the wrong love and left God, i.e. married in their youth, but in the end it was God, their ultimate maker, that would deliver them and care for them, as I must rely on God to ultimately care for me and love me.
This world is not my home, and so I should focus on sharing the love of God with others and praising him rather than trying to make someone love me in the "God ordained way" that does not chose to.
17 Cindy Wright // Jun 19, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Dear Lora, I can well appreciate your heart in this. It would be GREAT if we could be satisfied with only the Lord. But in reality, that’s not how God designed us to live. Even He recognized that “it’s not good for man to be alone.” And yet He walked with man, so man had the Lord at his side, but God knew that human companionship was needed as well. And if God recognizes this, we should also. Not all of our needs are created by God to be met by Him alone.
I was praying about how to respond to your letter, but there are so many issues you have going on here, that I feel the best way to best address the information you are seeking, would be to recommend a book to you that Pastor Mark Gungor wrote titled, “Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage: Unlocking the Secrets to Life, Love and Marriage.” He also has the DVD’s of his seminar available to view by the same title. I can’t recommend them highly enough. They’re both hilarious as well as very practical in the information Pastor Mark shares.
If you go into the “Marriage Enrichment” section of this web site, and go into the Links and Resource Description part of that section, you will find a description of the book and also a link to Pastor Gungor’s ministry at laughyourway.com if you would like the DVD’s.
Pastor Gungor does a great job of addressing every issue you bring up. All of this is so complicated that I truly think you would gain more out of reading what he has to say, rather than my trying to unravel everything here. He’s a much better communicator. We’ve viewed the DVD’s of the seminar with numerous couples in our home and they’ve all raved about the way in which Gungor communicates and explains the differences between how men and women conduct themselves in the marriage relationship — especially in sexual ways. The book is also a great platform for him to explain these concepts. (We’re going to be giving them to couples as part of their wedding gifts — that’s how beneficial we think the book would be for those who marry.) I hope you can obtain one.
18 Lora // Jun 20, 2008 at 7:35 pm
(USA) Thank you for your commits. I do agree that God created humans for relationships with each other as well as God, and my husband and I do have a very good Philao(brotherly love) between us. He is one of the persons that makes me laugh the most and the person I most enjoy being around in life. He likes the way I cook, care for the kids, save money, and in general run our home. It is just that i don’t think he is attracted to me. I make a great maid, nanny, and personal assistant. He makes a great friend and father. Most days we are great together until we get up to our room for bed. I am attracted to him, and he is not attracted to me or just doesn’t like to touch me.
I know of the book, Laugh your way to a better marriage" and we also have the seminars in our area. I have already asked my husband to attend one of the ten they offered last year and he was too busy for all of them. We have tried other marriage books like "Love and Respect" and it resulted in many fights with out productivity so we finally gave up on it. I am very limited in the time I have to read and prefer to spend that time in the bible. I do sometimes read Absolute Surrender and books like it, but I find most help books just make our marriage worse.
I know this leaves you with little more you can do for me. I am sorry I am so difficult. I am not the type to refuse this book, but over the last few years I have had just about every help book thrown at me. My mother in law reads just about every Dobson, Leman, McCarther, and such book that is put out and asks me to read all of them. After a few years of this I realized the books were not helping and leaving me feeling helpless. I also believe a lot of them gave poor advice even though they we trying to teach God’s word they some how feel short.
In summary, I don’t think I can get my husband to a seminar and I don’t want to try another self help book.
19 Lora // Jun 20, 2008 at 7:47 pm
(USA) Also, you say the book addresses all our issues for Men and Woman. I feel like when they start into sexual issues in Christian classes all the chuckling is about how the men chase after it. I hate having to sit their quietly when it is really my issue not his. I am emberased and I think my husband despises me more for this.
20 Jo // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:41 am
(USA) I have been married for seven years. I was 31 years old when I married my husband and, being the "good little Christian girl," I had saved myself for marriage. Now, I am married to a man who, for whatever reason, won’t have sex with me. I have tried everything; we have talked and talked about our issues and he is really good at telling me what he thinks I want to hear (i.e. finding me very beautiful and sexy, it’s not me it’s him, etc.). What he doesn’t understand is that old saying "talk is cheap." He can tell me anything but his actions speak so much louder than his words. And I am afraid that his actions are telling me that we are just best friends and nothing more.
He is really good at giving me hugs (when I ask for them); he likes to hold my hand. However, he won’t kiss me, unless it’s on my forehead or a quick peck on the lips. And we have had sex once in the last 11 months. Don’t get me wrong, my husband is a wonderful man. He is truly the nicest guy in the world! And sometimes I think about how great he is and I feel so precious to God (I mean, God must think I’m special if he gave me this wonderful man as my husband, right?). But sometimes, I can’t help feeling so angry at God for the situation. I did everything right. At a time when all of my friends and my 3 sisters were out being promiscuous, I managed to do the right thing. I made it through my twenties with my virginity in tact and THIS is my reward?! Being rejected over and over again by the man I saved myself for? It’s like some big cosmic joke that’s not at all funny. I know that I am beginning to grow bitter.
The hardest part is that everyone thinks we have the perfect marriage. My brother is always talking about how he admires our relationship and how he wants what we have someday. And every time he mentions it I just feel like we’re lying to him. I don’t know what else to do. Can you have a sexless marriage and still have a happy marriage at the same time?
21 Emily // Jul 3, 2008 at 12:30 pm
(USA) Oh, Jo. I know exactly how you feel. I am younger, and only married for a year, but in pretty much the same situation. It hurts so much. What’s worse in my case is that, although I saved myself for my husband and was a virgin when we married, he was not. It hurts me so much that he was willing to have sex with a past girlfriend and doesn’t want to make love to me, his wife.
I don’t know what to tell you to make the pain go away, but I just wanted to tell you that I know exactly how much pain you are in right now. You have my thoughts and prayers… *hugs*
—
I would love to see an article somewhere that discusses, from a Christian perspective, how to really handle this situation. I Cor. 7 is all fine and good, but trust me when I say that if I brought it up to my husband, he would be extremely angry and it would only make the situation worse. People like Jo and I could really use the help.
22 Cindy Wright // Jul 3, 2008 at 4:27 pm
(USA) Hi Jo, I’ve been praying about what to write you. But it’s such a difficult situation to discuss because there’s no simple response to give you after reading your plea and sensing your frustration, except to say that I’m so sorry. I know this must hurt your heart on so many levels, and I truly grieve with you.
What you are going through in your marriage is so complicated, and yet it’s so real! Many, many people (both men and women alike) are dealing with this. They are mismatched in their sexual drive and it is driving them mad!
You seem confused about the “reward” you received for being a “good little Christian girl” and saving yourself for marriage. I pray you will reconsider blaming it on God. We don’t save ourselves for marriage because we will be rewarded with a great (or even good) sex life afterward, we are to do it because God tells us not to bond ourselves sexually with someone who isn’t our spouse. It causes a soul tie that God intends ONLY to happen in the context of marriage. By saving yourself, you didn’t complicate matters worse. That’s the saving grace in all of this. As difficult as it may seem, it could be worse.
And believe me when I say that even if you had sex with your husband before marriage, it wouldn’t mean that the same pattern would stay as a constant later. I know of MANY men and MANY women that had a very lively sex life with their partner before marriage and had it change abruptly later (sometimes soon after and sometimes longer). There are a variety of reasons for this that are too complicated to get into in this comment section. But I urge you, and also Emily, and others out there that are dealing with this issue, to read a couple of articles we have posted in the “Sexual Issues” section. They may be able to give you a glimpse into this problem. One article is titled “When the Husband Has a Low Sex Drive.” You will find a web site link for another article that is posted on the tail-end of this one, which is titled “Help! My Husband Doesn’t Want Sex.” There is another article titled “Decreased Sexual Desire in a Husband or a Wife.” Those articles may be able to help you a bit to understand things. It doesn’t make it go away, but it helps to understand them a bit and not be in total confusion.
Unfortunately, I’ve looked high and low for articles to post on this subject (because we get so many requests) but my search keeps taking me to dead ends (even so, I’ll keep looking). It’s frustrating because it’s not discussed as it should be. And part of the reason may be because it’s not something that is understood very well. There are a variety of reasons for it occurring and the way to get past it is different in most cases. But one of the main solutions isn’t one that most people want to hear, and that is that if you don’t want to do it, you need to find a way within yourself to do it anyway. It can help you to get past it.
I’m reminded of something that happened years ago (almost 35) which resulted in applying the same principle. Please bear with me because it’s a crude example, but I’ll get to the point afterward. When I was breast-feeding our oldest son (and it happened later with our youngest son also), I developed what was then called Breast Fever. Now I believe it is called Mastitis. I developed a fever and was EXTREMELY sore and sensitive. when I was feeding our son, it’s all I could do to cry out, it hurt so bad. I called the doctor and he told me what it was and he said that actually the best cure was to keep breast feeding even though it hurt so much. He said that it wouldn’t hurt our son and it would help to get this condition to work its way through my system quicker.
It was brutally painful. But eventually, just like the doctor said, it worked. Eventually I was able to feed our son and it didn’t hurt and all was well until he was weened. When it happened again with our youngest son I knew what needed to be done, and I toughed it out and I’m so glad I did. The milk God provided through me nourished our sons and built their immune systems and also bonded us together quicker, I believe, through the time we spent together in this way. It also built up my resolve to persevere through painful times (both physically as well as mentally and emotionally) knowing that sometimes the best way to get through something is to do what hurts the most but in the end, the pain doesn’t last as long and the best result comes about.
I say all of this to say that sometimes when a problem comes between us as husband and wife, we need to “tough it out” and work to serve each other and though we may go through a tough time for a while, in the end, the best result will come about. We need to serve each other as Christ served the church and gave Himself up for her.
Now when it comes to sexual matters, who wants to do that? –especially when “the world” makes sexual issues look like they should come easily and if we have to struggle we should just give up and move on to someone else. Who wants to be the partner “doing it” when you don’t feel compelled to do it? And who wants to be the receiver of the partner who is “toughing it out” with you? Do you see what I mean? It’s all complicated. But from what I’ve read and know from experience (which I don’t want to go into because one of our sons is the web master of this web site), and contrary to what many others may say, there is a physical and spiritual phenomenon that occurs when two people come together to try to as graciously as they can “work things out.” By doing so, they eventually serve one another and bond together all the closer because of and in spite of the tough time they persevered through. One partner has to be gracious in doing what they don’t at first “feel” like doing, and the other partner has to be gracious enough to help them work through it so eventually they get to a better place in their sexual union. I know of several people (and have read of others) who have been through this. Their sexual life together is now terrific!
And even if it wasn’t, isn’t’ God’s grace sufficient to help us to get beyond ourselves and do what is right because God says it is? What about those couples that can’t have sexual relations together because of an accident that occurred to one of them or because of an illness or such? Do they throw their relationship away and their witness of God’s ability to give us the strength to do what we have to do, even if something unfair happens to us?
I know this is different in many ways, because it appears to be a choice your husband is making that comes between making things happen and not; but it’s no less real.
I sure don’t want to minimize the frustration you (and others) are going through. But I want to encourage you NOT to blame God for this. He isn’t “punishing” you for being good. And yes, He can infuse extra testosterone into your husband (and work with wives, where this is happening because the wife doesn’t respond or initiate sexually), but God, for whatever reason that we can’t always understand, hasn’t allowed this to keep happening. He has reasons why he heals one and not another and why he allows suffering, etc. We have to trust His heart that after we get to the other side, we will see clearer, why things happened or didn’t happen a certain way. I pray that you are able to wrestle this out in your spirit to let God be God and to call upon His sustaining power to help you, and prayerfully your husband, to get to a better place sexually with each other.
As far as your husband also refraining from giving you affection as you need it, where he won’t kiss you except on the forehead — something’s wrong here. He may be wonderful in other ways, but there’s some kind of control thing going on and something’s not right. You really need help with that. If your husband won’t go in for counseling, I urge you to still find a good Christian counselor for yourself (who is pro-marriage — you can find some articles we have posted on this in the “Marriage Counseling” section to explain what I mean). There’s a control issue going on that needs to be dealt with, and it sounds like you need help to know how to deal with it (even if he won’t).
I pray that the articles I encouraged you to read and the insights the Lord gives you as you pray with an open heart and mind, will help you with this problem. If you come across something we could post that would help others, please let us know. We keep searching. I pray the Lord helps you, and speaks within you, and speaks within your husband’s heart to work through this issue in as healthy as a manner as possible. May God give you help and hope!
23 Jo // Jul 3, 2008 at 7:21 pm
(USA) Hi Cindy, First I just want to thank you for responding to my (and Emily’s) comment. I had never heard of your website before I stumbled across it this morning and I truly feel as though God led me here. You have no idea how much better I feel just having shared a little bit of my heart on this subject and having someone who loves Christ put their hand out. And thanks for reminding me that the reason we Christians do things a certain way is simply because God said so. Believe me, I do know what it is to cry out to God and say, "Lord, I don’t understand but, I trust you."
Thank you for the articles you recommended; I can assure you that, now that I’ve found you, I plan to go over this website from beginning to end looking for any info that might help my situation! As for your suggestion of "toughing it out" and doing it even when you don’t feel like it; I have read of this solution before and even discussed it with my husband. He actually said ok, he would try this. But…nothing ever came of it and I just feel like I shouldn’t have to beg my husband for sex, you know? (Besides, begging wouldn’t do any good; he would still say no and I would feel even worse than I had before the begging began.)
Also, you may be right about there being a control issue at work. You see, my husband is several years older than me (14 years) and he is a retired Police Officer. He has told me many times that most Police Officers are, by definition, control freaks. And I never thought about that before you brought it up but, I suppose that could have some bearing on the situation. I have asked him before if he would be willing to go to counseling with me and he said that he would. At the time I was only half serious but now I wonder if it’s something we should really consider.
Anyway, thank you again, for your concern and for your prayers; I really do appreciate it.
24 Lora // Jul 3, 2008 at 7:31 pm
(USA) Emily and Jo, I admire that you have saved yourself for marriage. This is a gift to yourself even more so than your husbands. When you don’t and then there are sexual issues, you can struggle for years blaming everything on yourself. In the struggles I have gone through I have found simple things to be the blame for us not coming together. I had a small series of bumps on my chest and did not realize that they were grossing my husband out. He didn’t want to tell me that he was repulsed by me so he kept telling me I was attractive but was clearly disgusted with me by his actions.
Finally after a half year, he opened up to me and shared this issue and I was able to work through some treatments. Another time he was having pain associated with sex and again would not tell me. It sounds like what you are going through is much more complicated than this because he is withholding kissing.
In the end I just wanted to let you know that you are on my heart. These last few months I have been going up to visit a widow lady from our church who is unable to leave her house. Reaching out to her has helped me a lot. When she talks of her deceased husband I appreciate my own so much more. As she struggles to see and hear, I learn to praise God for the simple things in my life. Lastly in a recent Sunday school class they pointed out that some wives take a more holy than you stance with their husbands. Not that you are doing this, but that was an issue that really turned my husband off from me, and I did not realize I was doing it.
25 Emily // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:05 am
(USA) Hi Cindy and Lora… Thanks for responding to Jo’s, and my, comments. You’ve given me a lot to think about.
I stumbled across this website yesterday in the depths of my frustration. I’d never visited this site before, so apparently God was leading me here too. I’ll keep reading the resources on this site to try to get some ideas about how to handle this painful situation. Thanks again
26 Lora // Jul 7, 2008 at 9:19 am
(USA) Emily, I am happy to hear that God is helping you. He certainly helped me by bringing me to this web site as well. Don’t give up, this is a slow battle. I have been at it for years, and there are some very low points but God can a will bring you through them if you keep looking towards him.
27 Amanda // Jul 9, 2008 at 4:53 pm
(USA) Thank you all so much for this. I am so happy I am not alone! I have talked openly, tried to talk to my husband, and I get no where. This struck a cord with me Jeni // Oct 9, 2007 at 2:00 am. You have put my feelings into word better then I myself could have! Now what to do with this information is up to me and when do we say enough is enough; I have needs too!
28 L // Jul 11, 2008 at 7:06 pm
(USA) I wish I had a wife that wanted sex more often. We have sex every 6 to 8 weeks. I want more but she doesn’t even what it that often. You gals that are married to guys who don’t want sex sounds crazy to me.
29 Lora // Jul 17, 2008 at 6:55 pm
(USA) Cindy Wright, I have been able to reserve the book, Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage, at the library. I know my husband would have had an issue if I had spent money on it, but will be okay with this. I do not think he will read the book, or participate in it with me. Will this prove productive to me with out his participation? Are there specific chapters for me to play closest attention to. I am a very slow reader.
30 skwright // Jul 18, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Hi Lora, I’m so glad you were able to obtain this book. As far as what chapters to read, I would just enjoy reading every one of them. You may be a slow reader, but Pastor Gungor is a great communicator and humorous as well. I think you’ll benefit from, and enjoy reading every part of it.
I’m so sorry that your husband wouldn’t read the book. I’m sure he’d benefit as well. The DVD’s of his seminar are great as well! We’ve viewed them at least a dozen times with different friends that we invite over. I couldn’t imagine anyone (whether Christian or not, NOT enjoying them), but some people feel threatened or oppose even the idea of reading or viewing a seminar because they think they’ll be bored (or will be convicted).
Even if just one of you reads material that Pastor Gungor writes, you could still benefit. Plus, learning while you’re being entertained is the best kind of education there is. Enjoy!!!
31 Cindy Wright // Jul 18, 2008 at 9:44 pm
(USA) Hi Lora, I’m so glad you were able to obtain this book. As far as what chapters to read, I would just enjoy reading every one of them. You may be a slow reader, but Pastor Gungor is a great communicator and humorous as well. I think you’ll benefit from, and enjoy reading every part of it.
I’m so sorry that your husband wouldn’t read the book. I’m sure he’d benefit as well. The DVD’s of his seminar are great as well! We’ve viewed them at least a dozen times with different friends that we invite over. I couldn’t imagine anyone (whether Christian or not, NOT enjoying them), but some people feel threatened or oppose even the idea of reading or viewing a seminar because they think they’ll be bored (or will be convicted).
Even if just one of you reads material that Pastor Gungor writes, you could still benefit. Plus, learning while you’re being entertained is the best kind of education there is. Enjoy!!!
32 LT // Jul 19, 2008 at 10:19 am
(USA) Just a quick note on Christians who don’t/won’t consider materials or DVD’s written by other Christians - the one I hear a lot from my circle of Christian friends that don’t entertain the notion of looking at other materials is that it’s "worldly" or "tainted" because another human wrote it. But then these are the same people (usually men) who have no problem referring people to articles they have written.
I find this small-minded, personally. I try not to take that view point. I always pray for discernment so that whatever I get can be sifted, by God, to me by the time I’m viewing it or reading it.
You can’t make others read or view outside Christian materials if they aren’t interested but, like Cindy says, it doesn’t mean that you won’t benefit if you take advantage of the materials. Don’t let other peoples’ views taint yours. Let God be your guide. With love, LT
33 Wayne // Jul 26, 2008 at 12:56 pm
(USA) Cindy, Thank you for the service you are providing to the body of believers. It is often helpful, as evidenced in the comments above, to share our hurts and concerns with others who understand them and know that we will be exhorted in a loving, biblical manner.
My wife and I have been married for nearly nine years. After the birth of our daughter (she’s 7 today!), my wife struggled with low desire. I took it very personally, and at one point, the problem nearly killed our marriage. Only a prayerful, loving approach to the issue helped us to heal. Soon, we were wanting another child. After a miscarriage, we were successful in bringing a son into our family. It took us a while to get pregnant that time around, and success was regular (if sometimes obligingly dutiful.)
My wife has very difficult first trimesters. With our son, she was bedridden and on IV fluids for more than two months. Once the second trimester hit, however, she was feeling great and was very desirous of me. Unfortunately, due to some complications, we stopped having sex two months prior to his birth. It would be nearly two-and-a-half years before we had sex again.
The complications were many: c-section recovery, severe back and hip pain on her part (due to spinal implementation she had as a teenager), money stress and once again, low desire on her part.
Unfortunately I, however, don’t have this problem. I’m like a 15-year-old trapped in a 38-year-old body. I don’t have unrealistic expectations for our sex life, but I do feel the need to unite with my wife in a God-given act that bonds us closer, brings us closer to Him and protects us from the temptations of the outside world. I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t always dealt with this issue with the grace and patience which God has afforded us.
Last December, my wife finally saw her physician and got testosterone injections to boost her desire. For several months, we had a sex life again! Often our timing was bad, like I would be out of town on work when her desire was the highest, but we were closer and more intimate than we had been in years!
The enemy however, reared his ugly head. My wife started homeschooling our daughter and, around the same time, dealing with the myriad issues of her aging, ill and financially-strapped parents. They were here so often, that our son thought this was their "home." The stress of their situation, literally coming into our home, our own financial struggles, my 120-hour work weeks of late (we’re self-employed — it’s working toward a goal) and the return of her back pain have resulted again in a sexless marriage. It’s been about four months now.
I know that I should rejoice in my sufferings as they lead to perseverance, character and hope, but this one issue is a point of weakness for me. The enemy and my own self-doubt and unbelief compound themselves into my believing that I am the cause of the problem; or worse yet, that no matter the cause this is just the way our marriage will always be.
Let me stress here that we have a very loving marriage. We flirt, we tease, we are very bothered by any night that doesn’t include our requisite hour or two of snuggling together on the sofa before bed. But the affection is often one-sided. I kiss her often, am careful to let her know how beautiful I think she is and never let a day go by when I don’t tell her how crazy I am about her. She flirts back, but rarely initiates. Whereas I may express physical affection toward her several times a day — kisses, caresses, playing with her hair or massaging her legs and feet at night — I’m lucky if she reciprocates once or twice a week. The physicality of our snuggling I think speaks volumes — me facing her, her facing away.
Here is my conundrum: if I am to love my wife as Christ loved the church, meaning that I should die to my own selfish desires and put her needs above my own, but she is to not deprive me and recognize that her body is no longer her own, how do we reconcile the two? What is it to be? Do I suffer out of honor and respect for her pain, stress and lack of desire? Or is she to submit her body, despite her own misgivings, to my desires? It’s a fine irony Paul has presented us. Now how to make sense of it?
34 Lora // Jul 27, 2008 at 6:09 pm
(USA) I have found that dying to your self is more about the Holy Spirit filling you with contentment in an area that human nature would not allow you to be content in before. i.e. when I thought I could not be happy in life with out sex but I gave up my selfish desire for sex, God suddenly removed the empty anger I was filled with every time my husband rejected me.
It does not make my husband right, and I have spoken with him about the issue. There comes a point when it is no longer in my control, it is in God’s hands and by letting him have my desires he can supernaturally through the Holy Spirit, bring a peace in your spirit.
Do the books, do the counseling. But know that the Holy Spirit can make you content no mater what life is set for you.
I am no expert, I am young and foolish so look to Cindy for the best advice. I just felt this on my heart to share.
35 Robyn // Jul 27, 2008 at 9:08 pm
(UNITED STATES) I, like many others, just happened upon this website. My husband and I have been married for 9 years. I am struggling in my marriage with a mismatched sex drive. While how often we make love is considered normal (once or twice a week) I would like to have that connection every day if I could. I have to be honest, my husband and I did have premarital sex. I also must say, that while I am a Christian, my husband is not. He decided after we got married that he was an agnostic.
My issue is this . . .I believe that my husband has a high sex drive, it just isn’t directed toward me. My husband, I believe, is struggling with a porn addiction. We have sought counseling, and it seems that nothing ever helps. He has even admitted, that he may have a "little" problem. I have been through all of the emotions; jealousy, sadness, anger and even have felt that I must "compete" with the images to be better. I have actual, physical pain in my heart from this. I am crushed that this has happened to me. I feel that I am being punished by God for having premarital sex. I really don’t know where to go from here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
36 Cindy Wright // Jul 29, 2008 at 11:08 pm
(USA) Hi Lora, Thanks for your comments. They come from experience and that is always more helpful than “untested” advice. God has given you wisdom and we appreciate your sharing it with us.
Wayne, I’m so sorry that you and your wife have been going through such a difficult time in bonding together in this special way. It’s almost like the “Perfect Storm” scenario. For that “season” many stormy situations raged against you. That doesn’t mean that it will always be this way (even though it may seem like it). Most couples go through those times. We have, and it was difficult when it happened (many different times). And who knows what the future will bring?
The only real advice I can give you is for both of you to sincerely pray that God will help you to each “consider the other” as the Bible talks about. Your wife is struggling with various health, hormonal and circumstantial issues, and you are struggling with work, her issues as well as circumstantial, and trying to be patient. It’s difficult for each of you. Her needs are very real and your needs are very real. Neither of you should consider your own needs as more important than the others. You both need to be considerate and giving about this.
But when you ask the Holy Spirit, with all sincerity, to help you to serve and consider the other, it goes into the fore-front of your mind and before the throne of God and the Lord shows you windows of opportunities to bond in various ways, as you stay alert. You need to give some and your wife needs to give some, and you both need to be intentional about it and sensitive to each others circumstances. Just don’t close down to the other persons needs. As you keep praying, and asking the Lord for help, He will show both of you how to do this and when you can come together.
My heart goes out to you. I pray that God will help you to be strong and help you to be faithful — guarding your heart, no matter what happens (or doesn’t happen). This is a time when Christ can come out in how you serve the needs of your wife, and the same is true for her. There are ways to make the necessary adjustments to bring you together in physical intimacy as well as emotional and spiritual intimacy. I pray God will show you. I encourage you both to pray for each other and try to draw closer to each other as a support system. Don’t allow the enemy of our faith to distance you as marital partners. Be intentional in coming together in supportive ways.
Please know that Steve and I (and many others, I’m sure) will lift you up in prayer. May God bless you both.
37 Lora // Aug 9, 2008 at 11:02 am
(USA) Cindy, I finished my reading of the book Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage. It was interesting. I was very surprised by 2 parts of the books.
1. His recommendations for strong woman to forcible civilize their men. Ie.. Kick their husbands out if they are staying out late, or involved in inappropriate internet things. And with the intent of saving the marriage not ending it.
2. His interpretation of the old testament law for divorce, and how Jesus interpreted it. He seemed to say that it is when one party is not longer vested in the marriage in any way that a divorce was allowed because of the hardening of their heart. This is very different that the standard baptist rule that divorce is only allowed in cases of infidelity.
I wanted to know if you feel like I am interpreting these parts of the book correctly and if you agree with them?
38 Cindy Wright // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:12 am
(USA) Dear Lora, I apologize that it has taken me so long to respond to your comment. We were out of town attending a Marriage and Family Conference and just got back so I am now trying to get caught up on things that piled up while we were at the conference.
I also need to apologize for recommending a book to you when I haven’t read it personally. I’ve attended Pastor Gungor’s Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage Seminar and have viewed the DVD’s for the seminar a dozen times or so. My husband and I have thoroughly enjoyed them. I felt confident from viewing them that the material would be much the same except in written form. Now that I’ve read your comment, I’m uncertain. I’m sorry. As with all human advice, always hold it up to the scriptures and glean what is right and what can help in Truth and throw away the rest. No human being is infallible, only God is.
I have to confess that I really can’t answer your questions as to whether you are interpreting these parts of the book correctly or not — although your comments have prompted me to read the book now, to see if I veiw what he has written the same way. (Unfortunately that will take me some time because I have a HUGE stack of books to read and am trying to get through them as quickly as I can.)
To answer your questions, I would encourage you to personally write Pastor Gungor. He has a “Contact Us” section on his web site where you can write him. His web site can be found at http://www.laughyourway.com. These would be good questions to write him. It would be interesting to know how he would respond. If you do write him, could you please let us know what he says? We would like to know as well. We would want to know if we should still be recommending the book.
As for your first point, I’m not sure of Pastor Gungor’s exact take on women being “strong” to forcibly “civilize” men, as you say he writes in the book. But I have to say that I believe that too often women (and some men) step back and allow unacceptable behavior when they should actually be stepping forward to prompt a change, with the leading of the Holy Spirit and the strength and control of the Lord. Being meek, (as the Bible says that the meek will inherit the earth in Matthew 5:5) doesn’t mean being weak. It means strength under control. There is a difference. You saw that in Jesus. He knew when it was appropriate to be silent and when it was the right time to say what needed to be said to the glory of God. He knew when He was to prompt a change and when He was to suffer in silence to the glory of God.
I believe this is true for us as women, with the Lord as our guide. There are times when we are to refrain from speaking about a matter — letting the Holy Spirit talk to our husband’s hearts instead. I also believe there are times when we are to “speak the truth in love.” It is the leading of the Holy Spirit that will tell us what we are to do as we keep calling upon Him. But in all of this we are to be strong in doing what we know God would have us do.
We have an article in the “Save My Marriage” section titled “Why Doesn’t My Spouse Change? Functional Fixedness” that I recommend that you read. What I’ve seen is that sometimes a spouse will keep doing things a certain way because it has worked for him or her in the past. He or she doesn’t see any reason to change (even if the change should be made). I believe that there are times when we could do more to move their position along so we are more in partnership rather than allowing him or her to be caught up in selfism.
But it must be done by the leading of the Spirit for it to truly work. When one spouse is fixed on doing things a certain way even if it hurts the other spouse, that is when the offended spouse should pray and ask the Lord what can and should be done. You saw Queen Esther do this in the Bible with her husband. Her prayer and preparation time was extensive, but it worked. You saw Deborah do this with the situation her people were doing. God gave them the strength and leading to do what needed to be done to cause change.
As women, we may not be the head of the home, but we seem to be the neck that can often turn the head in the direction we believe it should go. God has given us this wonderful ability. This isn’t always the way things work because there are some stiff-necked men out there (sometimes they are stiff-necked for a season — other times for longer). God has given them a free will, just as He has given us one. But there are also some women who turn the head when they shouldn’t. We see that with Eve in the Garden and Sarah influencing Abraham to sleep with her maid servant because she didn’t see results fast enough. Pray that God will show you when you are and when you aren’t supposed to be the one who initiates the “turning.”
Whatever the case, we need to ask the Lord what we are to do in each situation. Strength under control of the Holy Spirit is a good thing; strength out of control is damaging. We just need to be aware and alert and willing to do what God asks of us even if it hurts. He sometimes has a plan in this as well.
The strength that Mark Gungor brought out in the seminars, that his wife displayed in their marriage, has been right on, from what I’ve interpreted. She’s used her influence in ways that motivated him as a husband not to be doing things as a solo act. It’s brought out the best in him and has benefited their marriage and partnership. I’m not sure what he’s written in the book so I can’t address that.
But I challenge you to prayerfully consider what God would have you do about this situation with your husband. Are you to graciously do more to move him beyond his “fixedness” or are you to keep leaning upon the Lord for strength to go through what you are (for a season or beyond)?
One of the things I picked up at the seminar this weekend was something one of the speakers said, “Everything our spouse does to us gives God the opportunity to root out the sin within us.” I see this to be true. There are times when my husband Steve is doing what he should, and times when he is doing what I believe he shouldn’t. (The same is unfortunately true with me.) But no matter what, I can learn something — and sometimes I learn just how “un-Christlike” I can be in my attitude and/or my actions. That doesn’t mean as his partner that I don’t say what I should (or refrain from saying what I shouldn’t) but it’s important that I participate in the Kingdom work that God wants to do in me, around me, and through me in all that comes into my life.
As far as addressing your second question, I really don’t know what Pastor Gungor wrote that is making you believe that he interprets divorce in a lighter manner. That subject didn’t even come up in the seminar. But I can tell you that my own position is the same as the article we have posted in the “Separation and Divorce” section. It is titled, “Scriptures on Divorce.”
I always point people to the scriptures and tell them to pray about their situation. If they believe their situation lines up scripturally AND they have prayed and feel God is showing them that they have His permission, then that is between them and God. I can’t question it unless God prompts me. But as I tell them… just because you CAN divorce, as laid out in the scriptures, it doesn’t mean that you SHOULD. Sometimes God wants to, and can perform a miracle in even the worst of marriage situations. But if we are unwilling to participate, then the blessing is lost. However, the Holy Spirit will reveal that to them. I’m not their Holy Spirit.
I hope this clears up some of your questions. It’s difficult to address them in this format because it really takes more of a dialog. But what it comes down to is that this is a very, very complex issue with many different reasons why it is happening. Some explanations can occur now or later, and others are beyond explaining this side of heaven. But no matter what, I know that God’s grace is sufficient. I also know that things may be one way one day and completely different another. We should never underestimate the miracles that God can bring about.
I believe that we are to keep petitioning the Lord to help us to do what is right, and to learn what we should, and to participate with His Kingdom work even if it hurts us. “Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.” “My hope is in the Lord” — not in what I see immediately in front of me.
I pray this helps in some way. I have to say that I love your heart Lora. You seem to want to do all you can to fit in with the Lord’s way of doing things. I pray the Lord will give you the delight of your heart and will lead you to make the best of this difficult situation. I pray you never give up hope. May God bless you abundantly!
39 Lora // Aug 14, 2008 at 7:05 pm
(USA) Cindy, I don’t think I would have phrased the questions the way I did if I knew you had not read the book. Unfortunately I had already returned the book to the library before I emailed you. I do not have the pages with the quote, and I put my questions in an extreme case interpretation because I wanted to see how much you supported the suptle undertones I detected in the book. Most of the book is very basic funny talk on marriage from a very biblical perspective, and I believe he is correct to a point on both of these issues, for reasons you have stated in your email above.
My husband is not close to either of the extreme cases I wrote about. In fact our marriage has been going very well for the last several weeks. And in church two weeks ago God convicted me that in all the good marriage I know of there are always some really big issues that the world would see as reason for divorce.
1. My sister has a husband who requests they don’t attend Sunday church, and though they have served as missionaries and attend Bible studies weekly, I know this was one of the most dear things to her.
2. My Grandmother in her late 80’s has lived her whole married life to a man that made her nervous to have company over and to call others, she still doesn’t fell comfortable calling her own daughters.
3. My other grandmother is married to a man that has studied the word of God for over 70 years and is still not at peace with God.
4. My mother and mother in law both control their husbands.
5. My sister in law has a husband that at one point was traveling all the time, and even kept his business phone active all hours of the night.
I give these examples not because I view these as bad marriages, but in fact the opposite, these were the marriages I was jealous of. It took God bringing this to my mind 2 weeks ago to help me be content that I have a good marriage. It is just that the world does not seem to agree on what a good marriage is anymore. I am happy to come to this web site because I difficult days in our marriage. I come here and know there are other woman going through a similar marriage problem that I am going through.
I am always praying to see God improve my marriage, for both my husband and my own good. I am working actively towards motivating him to do what I want, and I am okay with my husband motivating me to do what he wants.
Cindy, I will not write Mark Gunger without the book to quote exact pages. I don’t think it would be of any profit. I am sorry if I caused problems. When you do get around to reading it, please post your commits so I can read them.
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